You Failed The Wii - Support Third Party In 2008

Here is the problem. Everybody is saying that if Zack and Wiki does well it will mean that there is a market for more "adult" games on the Wii, and if it fails we're doomed to have only the occasional bad port of games designed for other consoles with bad Wii controls tacked on, and mini-game compilation games from 3rd party developers. But what they are forgetting is that Zack and Wiki doesn't really appeal to "adult" gamers.

My first impression of Zack and Wiki was this... uh... cartoon graphics... and it's a story about a kid and his teddy bear, who wants to be the best pirate in the world... sounds like a kid who is playing pirate... doesn't sound good to me. It's like what Yahtzee Croshaw said in his Zero Punctuation review of "Super Paper Mario", "[he] usually avoid[s] colorful cartoony graphics for fear of catching 'the gay'". This is kind of a harsh way to put it... but most "adult" gamers are put off by cartoony graphics... this does nothing to aswade gamers from believing that Nintendo consoles are "toys for kids". Plus the "E for Everyone" rating really doesn't help this situation. From what I hear, I'm probably wrong about this game, but that was my first impression, and I'm pretty sure that most gamers that don't have time or interest to investigate, will have the same first impression.

What the Wii needs now is some more darker games. I'm really looking forward to "Sadness", because that may be the darker game that the Wii needs.

But hey, don't take my word for it... look at the games that were most popular in the last generation... aside from Mario/Zelda games, the most popular games were darker, "adult" games. GTA3 and it's spin-offs, MGS and its sequels, Eternal Darkness (ok, maybe the sales were sort of low, but IMHO it's probably the best game for the GC), Resident Evil, the Silent Hill series, Halo... none of these games were rated "E" or had cartoon graphics. Look at the games on the PC and other consoles that are doing well right now... Halo 3, BioShock, the Orange Box, the Call of Duty and Metal of Honor series, Assassins Creed... not a cartoony graphic in the bunch. The only popular cartoony graphic series' are Nintendo 1st party games... and their appeal to "adults" probably has more to do with nostalgia than to anything else. Most adults were raised on a steady diet of Mario, and Zelda... so there is loyalty... but there is no similar loyalty to Zack and a teddy bear.

Plus, adventure games have a very small demographic appeal anyway. Tell me, where are the First Person Shooters? Where are the RPG's, where are the Tactical Sneaking games? Where are the Survival Horror games?(I know there is RE4, but that's all... and anyway, RE4 really abandoned "Survival Horror" and became a 3rd person shooter... and "Umbrella Chronicles"? that's just an "on-rails" shooter... not survival horror) Even sports games have been pretty lousy... exempting Madden 08, and Wii Sports, they have been plagued by bad controls and lousy graphics. Perhaps it would be good for 3rd party developers to not develop Wii-remote controls, and instead use the Gamecube controller/classic controller if they can't make good use of the Wii controls!

Anyway, it doesn't look good for the future of "hard-core"/"adult" games on the Wii... despite the phenomenal sales of the Wii, if the developers believe that they can't sell anything but party games on the system, it's going to be a long generation for Wii owners!

I don't own a Wii and currently (or any other current gen console). The only things making me almost want one is RE4 with the extras that were not in the GC version and Metroid Prime 3. Aside from the mentioned, I have yet to see another Wii game that really draws my interest. I've long been tired of Nintendo's kiddie-cutsy game style. I know it works great in Japan and the kids (and many other casual gamers) love it here, but it's just not my thing. I'm a casual gamer who loves a good, long action/adventure game... preferably without any cell shading or cartoony stuff. I don't care for puzzle games, sports games, party games, or time limited games. I looked up Zack and Wiki and read some good reviews about it. But again, this is not the kind of game that I have an interest in playing. Cartoony graphics and new ways of using a Wii remote don't interest me. I'd much prefer something closer to a virtual adventure than a trip to toon town. I'm still hoping that future 3rd party Wii games ditch the kiddie angle (or at least cartoony angle) and go for something a little more realistic or at least darker in presentation. Graphics don't make the game (good) and the best graphics in the world can't save a bad game (from being bad), but the wrong graphics and style can kill a game/gaming experience for me. I know the Wii isn't a graphics powerhouse, but I feel that its graphic capabilities potential remains untapped in favor of "innovative" Wii remote use and toony presentations. I want to want a Wii, but the current game line up, including Zack and Wiki, do little for me and I can't see buying one for just two games of interest. Should I ever own a Wii in the future, Zack and Wiki will probably not be a game that I get for it, and I won't feel like I missed out in a thing by not getting it. Sorry for the long comment. :-)

The Wii is part of Nintendo's strategy to appeal to casual gamers even though they don't buy games. Nintendo makes money on every piece of hardware sold. They don't give a shit about third-party games because they know their target audience is too stupid to know any better. Everyone loses except Nintendo. Welcome to the dumbing down of the video game industry. It is like the last days of the 2600 all over again. The Wii is a dumping ground for garbage.

Capcom is the only third party company to consistantly produce good games for the Wii, and I owe all three games they have released so far. EA has had a couple good games as well, but considering they have released over 20 games, I would hope a couple would be good.

Zack and Wiki's release date for Europe is 18th of January. So no, a lot of us haven't had the chance to buy it yet.

This is absolute rubbish......Had the third party games been worth shouting about then maybe I'd of brought more! The problem is the quality of these games so far has been pretty cr*p!

Zack and Wiki is developed by Capcom a decent third party on the whole!

@Jimi, SirLeNerd, Perkoff, Stewed

Thanks for the comments concerning multiple players helping each other out. Both me and my wife love puzzle games, so there a strong possibility that we will enjoy it. I will rent it, based on the comments posted on this board, but like all my purchases I will wait until after I've played it to make a decision on weather or not to buy.

I looked hard for this game at Christmas. It was number 3 on my list this year. None of the stores had it.

I got this game for Christmas and my initial response was "hunh?". I'd never heard of it before. Got it out of the box and totally loved it. I am a huge fan of strategy and puzzle games and this one totally caught me by surprise. Multiplayer games are a big Wii market, sure, but it is nice to have a good solid game I can play on my own too. And each scenario is short enough that I don't feel like I have to block out several hours of gaming time in order to play it.

It doesn't have to be a single player game, you can play with your wife and kids, I mean it's a puzzle game, you'll need help figuring some stuff out.

I haven't even seen any commercials for this game. How would anyone buy it if they didn't know it existed?

So Zack and Wiki is the key to getting third party developers to make something other than mini-game collections on the Wii? None of the other such games count? Nonsense. Other third party titles that aren't mini-game compilations have sold hundreds of thousands of copies more than Zack and Wiki.

Maybe the problem is more that the Wii market is not very receptive to new IP as the other titles I'm thinking of are direct sequels of part of an established franchise. Asking why that might be and how to deal with it might be a better use of this space than accusing gamers of 'failing the Wii.' Gamers are not obligated to buy games they do not want.

Due to the comments about this being a single player game, I had to give my two cents.

Yes, Zack and Wiki allows only one player to control the main character. However, improving on the controls in Mario Galaxy, Zack and Wiki does allow three other persons to affect gameplay - at the same time. Icons for all four wiimotes can be seen simultaneously on the screen.

Yes, Zack and Wiki is a one player puzzle game. It is also the most complete, solid, well-designed, and thought-out game I've seen in a long time.

I would recommend Zack and Wiki to all but the most blinded fanboys.

This is a very good Wii game, I enjoyed playing it so much.

@Robert Jung: If it makes you feel any better, I work at gamestop and I push Zack and Wiki as best I can. Every day I go into work and I can sell one Zack and Wiki I feel much better on the inside. Who gives a shit about Game Informer subscriptions and used games if I can get one person to by Z&W.

I sold so much that my manager had to order more. :)

i want to second (or nth, since i'm sure many comments have done so already)... zack and wiki is a kick ass piece of gaming.

-r

This game does sound good. I had never heard of it. At all. Nor have I seen it on any shelves. That`s too bad. In line with what others have said, I think that lack of promotion is likely the main factor contributing to poor sales.

I agree that Zack & Wiki is a fabulous game, but please don't make some sweeping statement that consumers failed third-parties as if there's even that many worthwhile efforts being made. Let's face it, if it did great, it would've been more "kiddie" games and less of those like Assassin's Creed or Metal Gear Solid 4; if it did poorly, it would still be less of those like Assassin's Creed or Metal Gear Solid 4. The point is developers in general will see and act in accordance to what they see the Wii or Nintendo as, and it's nothing like they see the PC, 360, or PS3 as, and that's a shame (again). There are just as many "failures" in the mini-game department, so why are still getting more of those? Furthermore, there are just as many "hardcore" games "failing" on the PS3 and 360, so why are they still getting more of those? Why is Steven Spielberg's Wii game consisting of some Jenga-like gameplay but the 360/PS3 game he's making is some story driven epic? Why are Konami making MGS4 and Silent Hill 5 for the PS3 and/or 360, but the Wii is getting games like Elebtis and Dewy's Adventure. I mean you can't even get a "hardcore" 360/PS3 owners to take notice of what the Wii's got because there isn't many they care about. That's a reverse of years ago when Cube owners would notice what they're NOT getting that the PS2/Xbox get. Heck, even Wii owners tend to speak out just wishing so and so game that's being announced on the PS3/360 get a Wii treatment (or at least a decent side effort - something I would say Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles is and Soul Calibur Legends is not, and I've been wanting a good adventure game based on that license). How many 360/PS3 owners do you hear get envious of something the Wii is getting and they're not?

And frankly, many noteworthy games slip into the cracks - Beyond Good & Evil, Viewtiful Joe, Psychonauts, Viva Pinata, etc. - so it would be unfair to put another ultimatum to Nintendo fans if so and so specific third-party game doesn't go platinum, they must not like so and so genre. I've played Manhunt 2 for instance and it's a pathetic effort. No More Heroes isn't much to my interest either. So are you going to tell me that if I buy those I'll be getting games like MGS4 (or simply an equally stellar effort side MGS game of MGS3/MGS2 proportions) or a Silent Hill, or even a modern Snatcher revival? Will I be getting a real Resident Evil game now that I've bought RE4 Wii Edition (on top of the original Cube version) and RE:UC? Had I bought Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers am I guaranteed a real Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts game for the Cube? Just recently we're being told that Silent Hill is too hardcore for the Wii and that GTA isn't suited for it either.

So simply put, you can't guarantee a better future in terms of third-party support for the Wii and I'll be damned if I'm going to line up developer pockets with money I'd rather save up or use for games that I do want. Fortunately Zack and Wiki happens to be one of those I'm interested in.

My big question. Is it available outside USA and Japan?!

This is a very large problem in Australia. We have to wait months if we are lucky to have any title arrive. We fall under Europe, being a PAL video standard country. But we have to wait until the games (if the companies can be bothered) are translated into French, Italian, German etc.

We do not hang out at the store on release day, because they are never there. We wait until we know for certain if the company has been bothered to ship us any.

While I agree that Zack and Wiki is a great game that all Wii owners should embrace wholeheartedly (I got my copy!), I also think some of the onus must be placed on Capcom for simply tossing out this title into the retail wilderness naked and unarmed. Honestly, outside of Nintendo Power and some blog-based promotions by gaming enthusiast sites, did this title get ANY advertising at all? Primus knows I didn't see any print ads, much less a TV commercial or video trailer. And by numerous accounts, clerks at GameStop didn't even know what Zack and Wiki was, or even if they had it in stock -- another area where Capcom failed.

But then, this could be fodder for another article on how third parties failed the Wii in 2007, as a lot of quality third-party titles didn't get any sort of promotion because the publishers didn't want to invest more money on Nintendo's "unproven" console. The Wii versions of The Godfather and Tomb Raider Anniversary had added content and reliable motion-based controls, but the publishers just tossed them out onto store shelves without a by-your-leave. Even Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 got glossed over in the pre-holiday hype, despite boasting FPS controls rivaling keyboard and mouse and support for 32 players online co-op.

Blaming consumers for overlooking quality third-party Wii titles is only half of the equation; the other half requires blaming publishers for not telling people about their quality third-party Wii titles.

--R.J.

this kinda misses the point...you can't blame the consumers...if nintendo wanted this game to do well (and it would have done well to even the casual crowd), then they needed to ADVERTISE it that way...really Nintendo has always had by far, the worst advertising of any company i have ever seen...

...also...try getting a brain and releasing quality third party games like this in, oh, i don't know....SUMMER!!!!!

You know, that's all well and good that "we" have to support third parties, but, honestly, Z&W isn't my type of game. I agree with Lord_Sloth, the gaming library on Wii is entirely Nintendo's fault. They marketed the thing to non-gamers, they still haven't done much to encourage legitimate third party offerings, and Nintendo could release "Wii Suck" and people would buy it.

I tried to "support" third party games by grabbing Sonic and some EA titles early in the year, but, you know what, they're overpriced last gen refurbs and there are just BETTER third party games on other consoles.

If the games don't interest me, you can't expect me to buy them. That's Wiis problem.

I have either 19 or 20 Wii games now after getting the system at launch, seems like a lot! considering it's only been a year and a bit! but (only) 6 of them are 3rd party.

SSX Blur, Zack and Wiki, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, Rayman Raving Rabbids 1 & 2 (possibly my next game will be scareface if there is any real cheap ones left at futureshop tonight)

The rest are Nintendo or 2nd party titles (like Metroid or Batallion Wars) Part of the problem I think 3rd parties run into is that as a long time Nintendo fan Mario and Zelda and Metroid are on my radar, when they come out I want them, and with 3rd parties absent for merely offering ports of games there are few of them that I am activly looking for, I got Resident evil because I heard it was great - even though i skipped over it in the gamecube version, and I got Umbrella cronicles because I liked RE 4 so much. I got SSX Blur because I have played the other ones (Tricky, 3, On Tour) that franchise has been around and was good so I continue to buy.

3rd Parties especially on Nintendo consoles really need to advertise more agressivly, and be sure to put out a quality product. If not got the campaign at IGN i would not have bought Z&W, but I did and it's great. When games out out on XBOX and PS3 they are mostly 3rd party since it seems at least that microsoft and sony make very few games. Nintendo puts out quality titles every quarter it seems, with controls that are spot on, charaters people recognize, and game play that is GOOD, 3rd parties need to put out products that compete with that. I wish they could do so on a more consistent basis.

@matchbx - The game may say single player, but my wife and I have been enjoying it together ... a lot! We occasionally hand-off the wiimote and just try to solve the puzzles together. Highly recommended game!

I don't agree with comparing Zak & Wiki with overall Wii 3rd party sales. Z&W is a very niche title with a very small market. Not only that, but Capcom didn't really go out of their way to make sure it was easy to find. They limited production which caused such scarce supply.

If 3rd parties look at Z&W and decide the Wii is a no-go for them, then they should reevaluate why they make games in the first place.