Bad Fandom: Worn Out By Whedonites

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1. Sabrina Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 00:34

   God - thank you! Whedonverse fans are the worst, and I say this because I was once one of them. I was a Buffy fan, but then, horribly and suddenly (ie, midway through season 6) I wasn't, and I've never looked back. Firefly was bad (there's a reason it was canceled), Serenity was OK (hey, I'll admit it), but you're right -- all the Whedon acolytes need to move the hell on. Oh, I know we're in for a whole new round of crazy if and when Dollhouse finally airs, but until then - tone it down, okay kids? Whedon isn't the GREATEST WRITER/PRODUCER/DIRECTOR/SONGWRITER EVAR - he's just a modestly-talented writer who got lucky with one show and tried to parlay that into an empire. As the lady said, why do we have to drink your Kool-aid? It wasn't that great to begin with.

1. Tabz Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 01:00

   And yet, this is a killer fandom that knocks things out of park on a consistent basis. They organize charity screenings that take place on multiple countries and raise money for women rights (Equality Now). They have classes in serious academic settings. And they have people like me who seriously evangelize a show we love.
   
   Why? Because it's something special and we want to share it.
   
   Does that make us evil? Nah. I was "evangelized" into this cult - and it's a good one.

1. UncleFrank Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 01:02

   This killer fandom that knocks things out of the park sure did a good job of knocking Serenity out of the theater.
   
   Why does every annoying person/group on the planet use charity to justify how annoying they are?
   
   Just because you gave sick kids some money doesn't give you license to be a total deuche.

1. Stuart Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 01:57

   Just because you gave sick kids some money doesn't give you license to be a total deuche.
   -----------------------------------------------
   
   
   Heather Mills must be a Whedonite, lol.

1. Dollrific Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:20

   If someone won't stop harassing you for not liking Joss' shows it's not because they're a Whedonite, it's because they're an annoying person regardless of what shows they like. I'm a huge Joss Whedon fan but I can understand why someone wouldn't be into Buffy, Angel, or Firefly. I've tried to get friends to watch Buffy, some very successfully, others not so much, but I don't constantly bother them about it. If you're friends do then that's their own personality flaw, not something inherent in being a Joss fan.
   
   UncleFrank: "this killer fandom that knocks things out of the park" sure did do a good job of knocking a TV show canceled after half a season INTO the theater, something no other canceled show in history can claim. It wasn't a big box office performer, oh well, but it sold enough DVDs to warrant a 2-disc collector's edition. And the Serenity screenings raise money for women's rights, not sick kids. Douche.

1. Elizabeth Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:20

   Ouch. I really don't want to be that aunt. I've definitely tried to convince people that Serenity is the best movie on the planet, and I've possibly forced a few to watch Firefly. I generally don't rave about BTVS because I'm embarrassed to admit that I adore a show with a name that starts with "Buffy." But I've done all the rest.
   
   Okay, I relent. You leave me to my fandom and I'll leave you to yours. But I can't promise to stay quiet if you start attacking Whedon's work. So just be prepared to defend some of the idiocies on Lost if you start throwing stones at Whedon.

1. Tay Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:21

   The whole point is, and I'm sure my felow whedonites will agree, is that we know it's not great acting, but if like me you've been there from the start it's just pretty damn amazing in it's averageness. It has moments of pure win, it's the silly in jokes that only other whedonites will get.
   
   Ok so, I get looked down on by my jedi brothers and sisters, you know hwta? It's ok! We just want to share something that makes us happy in the hope it'll make you happy too. Yes we can't understand when you reject it, but that's ok too.

1. Laura Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:21

   This post kind of makes me sad.
   
   I agree with many of your sentiments - I feel the exact same way about certain members of various organized religions & sports teams.
   
   See what I did there? Certain Members. You are judging an entire group of people based on your experiences with select individuals. Not all Joss/Buffy/Firefly fans are insane & close-minded & pushy.
   
   Personally I hold a healthy appreciation of Joss & love his work. But I get where you're coming from in a non-insulted, non-haughty way. I for one don't understand how Seinfeld is considered "good" or "funny."
   
   I just ask that you take a step back from your rage/frustration/attitude, take a deep breath, & try to remember that the craziest fans are usually the loudest & therefore get heard way more than the rest of us.

1. DaddyCatALSO Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:22

   Okay, BtVS is my favorite show ever (and I watched Twilight Zone, Andy Griffith, and Jackie Gleason, and Sugarfoot in original episodes) I for one would never claim it has to be everybody's cup of Darjeeling with 2 packs of Equal. Nothing is eevrybody's.
   (Heck, I don't "get" Asimov's fiction, and while I admit their acting talent Brando and Steiger leave me cold.)
   
   But when you start just dismissing solid performers by saying they "can't act," you've lost me.

1. Derek Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:22

   Ummm...Jossus? Nobody in the fandom uses that...so dont know where you got that from.
   
   And why no Angel mention? Are those fans better than the Buffy/Firefly ones (Yes:))
   
   
   
   

1. Steph Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:22

   Okay, guys, I get it, you don't like Whedon or his creations. That's your opinion. But you can't deny the amazing things he's accomplished. If he was just the "mediocre" writer/director you were talking about, why does he have the fan following that he does? Why is he writing major comic series at Marvel (other than Buffy season 8)- Astonishing X-men and Runaways are two of the best comic series coming out right now. Why has he been approahed to write/direct so many new movies? Did you all see Toy Story?- yep he helped with that one too. Why are his characters/themes studied at major universities? Why has he had three series (and another in the making) that have done so wonderfully and have been critically acclaimed (even if they didn't get the airtime fans would have liked)? Firefly only failed because of the horrible time slot Fox put it in! Buffy, Angel, and Firefly have been named on so many "Best TV Series" lists- often all three on the same list!!
   
   Again, I'm not trying to push my views on you all or say that you're wrong for not liking Whedon. But you can't deny the evidence that's right in front of you and flat out say that Whedon is untalented.

1. DAVE ID Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:22

   I'm a die-hard Whedonite, or it may seem not enough, because I'm no evangelist like the ones you describe and yeah your arguments stand, bad acting and all.
   
   Fundamentally what's behind Buffy, Angel and Firefly is Joss and his story telling genius, mocking the clichés and the innumerable obscure pop culture references that only cultured and serious media geeks can get.
   
   I'm with you though that yeah, leave me alone, don't try to convert me. Not everyone can be a fan and thats OK. If everyone loved a show its because it would be a little bland to please everyone.

1. cleartrampoline Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:22

   Firefly, Buffy, Lost, Six Feet Under... all are rad shows in my opinion. :)

1. Cate Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:23

   Katey Rich has a point about many Whedonites being rather excessive and very... driven by their fandom. I happen to be a Whedonite (a lite version, if anything), and I love them all with great enthusiasm. But yes, there are quite a number that are a bit much. I have, however, never pressed Buffy, Angel, Firefly or anything else associated with Joss on anyone who didn't want it. Not every Whedonite is an over-bearing frosty bowl of punch busting through your brick walls.
   
   As for the jab at charity... Charity isn't their way of justifying being annoying. It's an example of good that comes from the unity of those fans. Their common love of a thing has actually done good, and that's commendable, and not something to be sneered upon.

1. meg Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:23

   "You are convinced that if I just watch one more episode of Buffy, or get through that pilot episode of Firefly that is two goddamn hours long, I will finally see the light and see the error of my vampire-shunning ways."
   
   But there aren't any vampires in Firefly! Excuses, excuses.

1. Joel Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:23

   I was with you until you called Alyson Hannigan a bad actress. You couldn't be more wrong about that one. She's one of the few actresses I've ever seen that can go from high drama to low comedy and back to high drama within the space of a minute and not have the scene fall apart. She's wonderful.

1. wha Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:23

   I agree with the article. I love Whedon's shows. Watched them with some friends that are like minded. But I do find some of the more.......vocal fans a bit creepy.
   
   To my this stuff is like religion. Everyone can belive/like whatever they want just dont go all preachy on others.

1. Elle Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:23

   By your ignorant remarks, you obviously have never sat down and watched these shows or taken them seriously. Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are shows that everyone can relate to. The stories and the characters are amazing and interesting to say the least, so no, I don't really understand when people fail to appreciate Joss's work and his eye for talent. This is a classic case of fearing what you don't understand, and trying to make yourself look superior by knocking it down. You must've sat next to someone remotely intelligent all through college to earn your alleged film studies degree. And no, you don't get it. You really really don't. It's so painfully obvious that you see Buffy as a silly teen show about "high school vampires" and nothing more. That alone destroys the credibility of your entire article because you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Admit it. Everything you love about LOST, Buffy did it first. Joss's shows inspired LOST. So.. you can love the pretender, but respect the real fucking thing.
   
   And to anyone else who is annoyed by Whedon fans: Get a hobby. Get a job. Get laid. Don't worry about it. I'm not a die hard Star Wars or LotR fan.. but I would never call those groups annoying for supporting something that they care about. It must be so wonderful to play it safe and just sit back and make fun of people for actually caring about something. Unless we come beating down your door, shoving Whedon DVD's in your face, don't worry about it. You're like the high school "punks" calling people annoying "posers." Grow up.
   
   -Proud Mother Fuckin' Whedonite.

1. Justin Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:24

   I'm a Whedon fan. It's true. And I MIGHT have a tendency to push it on people. But the only reason I do that is because I came into the Whedonverse far after its prime. I, too, once scoffed at the idea of anyone liking Buffy. A tv show with bad actors adapted from a relatively crappy movie? No thanks. An "annoying Joss Whedon fan" finally broke my will and I watched the series on DVD a couple of years after the last episode aired. Needless to say, I loved it. So if I know someone who has similar taste in entertainment as mine, but has a "no way" attitude about Whedon, I push them to at least give it a shot. I know I would have missed out if I kept up that attitude.
   
   ...though I'm not so crazy to push more on you if you watch a season of Buffy and don't like it. If you don't like it, fine. But if you just won't watch it on principle, I push. It's like an exotic food. You may not like it, but you can't say that it's gross until you actually eat it.
   
   And, for the record, I love both Lost and Six Feet Under.

1. ironic1 Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:24

   As a Buffy and Firefly fan I can only say... touché!
   
   Thanks for the morning laugh.

1. ALexreager Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:24

   I think you got it all wrong. YOU have a degree in film and have given the show a try. Most people don't have your knowledgeable perspective and won't even try the show. IMO most people won't give it a shot because the title is just not very appealing to many audiences. The handful of people that I've show episodes to really enjoy it.

1. Kym Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:24

   Sorry you've had such a bad experience with thw fandom. I'm a Whedon fan myself, but I try to keep my squeeage to those I know share my interest. Not all of us are rabid, I promise. I've had my shots, and everything! Whedon's style is not for everyone, sadly, but that's ok, too.

1. Nightshot Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:25

   Douche.
   
   sp.
   
   :)

1. Brian Rubin Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:55

   While I agree with the sentiment of this post (and have heard this complaint elsewhere), I believe singling out Whedon fans is both unfair and inaccurate. What about Star Trek fans, or Star Wars fans, or Lord of the Rings fans? Surely they have obsessive people in their fanbases that are just as annoying and pushy as SOME Whedon fans can be...yet why single out what is most likely the best, most constructive and friendliest fandom around?
   
   Overall, while I agree with some points in this post, I question its accuracy, its integrity and its ideals. Was this post meant simply to ruffle feathers and to get people talking? If so, mission accomplished, and brilliantly so. If, however, the post was meant to explain why ONE fandom is more passionate/annoying/pushy than other fandoms...it has failed miserably.

1. JoshT Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:56

   Brian, perhaps you should have read the last line:
   
   Cinema Blend writers fight back against out of control fanboys in our ongoing series of editorials, Bad Fandom!

1. Stuart Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 14:56

   His next show is about blank slate women who can be programmed to do whatever their masters want be it kick ass or suck peepee.
   
   The ultimate basement-dwelling girl-repelling geek's female control and domination fantasy if ever I heard it.
   
   Who says Joss only caters to his fanbase? LOL!

1. Tracy Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 16:22

   I'm insulted. I am a huge Whedon fan... and I don't do any of the things you accuse all of us of doing. Do I think you have bad taste for not loving all things Buffy, Angel, and Firefly? Absolutely. Do I think you are ignorant for it... Absolutely not. Do I believe in my heart, soul, and incredible imagination that if you truly did watch more of anything Whedon has to offer that you would fall in love with it? Absolutely. Do I really care if you do it? Absolutely not.
   I started out as a non-believer. I accidentally caught scenes.. not full episodes but scenes of Buffy when it was being rerun on the FX Network. I had watched the movie and was annoyed at how stupid it was, so I had no interest when the show came out. It grew on me slowly, until before I knew it, I was in love with the show. I didn't start watching the show live until Season Six, and never tried Angel until it was on DVD. Now I love both shows, and could watch the episodes a million times without becoming bored. Even though I have the DVDs I always catch myself watching when both shows are on TV.
   Firefly I didn't even know about when it aired. I think I remember something about it, but it competed with a show I was already watching regularly, so I didn't bother checking it out. Two years ago I bought the DVD, yes, just because it is from Whedon. I fell in love by episode two.
   So the way I see it... Maybe you are not the type of person who enjoys watching the struggle of human existence with a Sci-Fi twist. Perhaps your type of humor doesn't include the witty writing that these shows are known for. That is your choice, and in my opinion, your loss. Either way, try not to condemn the entire fan base, for a few aggressive fans.

1. N.E. Lilly Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 16:23

   Whedon Fan by N.E. Lilly
   
   I am Whedon fan
   I am Whedon fan
   Whedon fan I am
   
   That Whedon fan!
   Than Whedon fan!
   I do not like
   that Whedon fan!
   
   Do you like
   my Firefly?
   
   I do not like it,
   Whedon fan.
   I do not like
   my Firefly.
   
   Would you watch it
   in the Theater?
   
   I would not watch it
   in the Theater.
   I would not watch it
   anywhere.
   I do not like
   my Firefly.
   I do not like it,
   Whedon fan.
   
   Would you watch it
   on TV?
   Would you watch it
   on DVD?
   
   I do not like it
   on TV.
   I do not like it
   on DVD.
   I do not like it
   in the Theater.
   I do not like it
   anywhere.
   I do not like my Firefly.
   I do not like it, Whedon fan.
   
   Would you watch it
   in comic books?
   Would you watch it
   on FOX?
   
   Not in comic books.
   Not on FOX.
   Not on TV.
   Not on DVD.
   I would not watch it in the Theater.
   I would not watch it anywhere.
   I would not watch my Firefly.
   I do not like it, Whedon fan.
   
   Would you? Could you?
   At a Con?
   Watch it! Watch it!
   Here they are.
   
   I would not,
   could not,
   at a Con.
   
   You may like it.
   You will see.
   You may like it
   for free!
   
   I would not, could not for free.
   Not at a Con! You let me be.
   
   I do not like it in comic books.
   I do not like it on FOX.
   I do not like it on TV.
   I do not like it on DVD.
   I do not like it in the Theater.
   I do not like it anywhere.
   I do not like my Firefly.
   I do not like it, Whedon fan.
   
   A train! A train!
   A train! A train!
   Could you, would you,
   on a train?
   
   Not on a train! Not for free!
   Not at a Con! Fan! Let me be!
   
   I would not, could not, in comic books.
   I could not, would not, on FOX.
   I will not watch it on DVD.
   I will not watch it on TV.
   I will not watch it in the Theater.
   I will not watch it anywhere.
   I do not watch my Firefly.
   I do not like it, Whedon fan.
   
   Say!
   In the Black?
   Out in the Black!
   Would you, could you, in the Black?
   
   I would not, could not,
   out in the Black.
   
   Would you, could you, with a man called Jayne?
   I would not, could not,
   with a man called Jayne.
   Not in the Black. Not on a train.
   Not at a Con. Not for free.
   I do not like it, Whedon fan, you see.
   Not on TV. Not in comic books.
   Not on DVD. Not on FOX.
   I will not watch it in the Theater.
   I do not like it anywhere!
   
   You do not like
   my Firefly?
   
   I do not
   like it,
   Whedon fan.
   
   Could you, would you,
   you dang’d punk?
   
   I would not,
   could not,
   and I’m not a punk!
   
   Would you, could you,
   in your bunk?
   
   I could not, would not, in my bunk.
   I will not, will not, (don’t call me a punk).
   I will not watch it with a man called Jayne.
   I will not watch it on a train.
   Not in the Black! Not for free!
   Not at a Con! You let me be!
   I do not like it in comic books.
   I do not like it on FOX.
   I will not watch it on TV.
   I do not like it on DVD.
   I do not like it in the Theater.
   I do not like it ANYWHERE!
   
   I do not like
   your
   Firefly!
   I do not like it,
   Whedon fan.
   
   You do not like it.
   So you say.
   Watch it! Watch it!
   And you may.
   Watch it and you may, I say.
   
   Whedon fan!
   If you will let me be,
   I will try it.
   You will see.
   
   Say!
   I’ll be damned!
   I do! I like it, Whedon fan!
   And I would watch it in my bunk.
   And I would watch it (I guess I was a punk)...
   
   And I will watch it with a man called Jayne.
   And in the Black. And on a train.
   And at a Con. And for free.
   They are so good, so good, you see!
   
   So I will watch it in comic books.
   And I will watch it on FOX.
   And I will watch it on TV.
   And I will watch it on DVD.
   And I will watch it here and there.
   Say! I will watch it ANYWHERE!
   
   I do so like
   my Firefly!
   Thank you!
   Thank you,
   Whedon fan!
   

1. Chris Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 16:23

   I'm a fan of Buffy and Angel, even though both had their share of less than stellar episodes, but... please, don't use Astonishing X-Men in an attempt to prove Joss Whedon can write. It sold, because Joss has a devoted fanbase and they gave him reign over several of the premiere X-Men characters, but none of those stories are going to be remembered as classics. Danger, Ord, and the way he brought back Collosus... it ranges from unimpressive to downright pathetic.
   
   Runaways was alright, but you know... no major impact there, neither. When it comes to crossover time, who cares about those kids in L.A.? Nobody from my count.

1. Devorah Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 17:22

   I understand. I have friends who push Lost on me like woah. They say that if I just sit down and watch from the beginning I'll fall in love. I just don't wanna. To me, it looks stupid. And yeah, I may be ignorant and not giving it a chance, but I don't want to watch it.
   
   Then again, I am a HUGE Whedon fan, mainly as a flan. And I have pushed people into watching Firefly, I actively made them sit down with me and watch the whole 2hour-ish pilot. But then, I stepped back. If they didn't like it, that was fine. Please don't hate us all for the actions of the vocal minority of us fans.
   
   Oh, and please don't use the Buffy movie as an example of Joss' major works. He may have wrote the original script, but even he has expressed great dislike for how the movie was handled once the studio bought the script. He wrote a different movie than what was filmed.

1. Whedongeek Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 18:11

   N.E. Lilly: Thank you, Whedon fan for the riff on Dr. Seuss!
   
   Those who hate Buffy: Have you SEEN "The Body" or "Hush"? These, too, are incredible episodes. I've just shown those to my FILM CLASS, and I'll be showing "Out of Gas" and "Objects in Space" this week. These are incredibly beautiful, moving episodes. While I think SMG has done too many B horror flicks, you have to admire her acting in "The Body." I'm proud to try and convert my FILM students, many of whom were stunned by the Buffy episodes. Watch them, watch them, and you will see!

1. Tina Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 18:11

   Yeah, sure, we all suck very horribly.
   
   But Alyson Hannigan and SMG can act their pants off. If you'd just watch a season or two of Buffy you'd... Oh, wait. I see exactly where this is going.

1. Leigh Anne Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 22:19

   Seriously, this is the best thing I've read all day. And I am, admittedly, a psycho Buffy fan...Angel, too. Heck, I found this article via the Whedonesque website, which I go to regularly. To further prove my geekdom, TV Guide published a letter of mine is last week's issue--and yes, it was regarding Buffy!
   
   This was great--kudos to you for putting it out there. My feelings aren't hurt, I have no righteous indignation, nor am I plotting your demise. I honestly loved it. Also, N.E. Lilly's ode to the Whedonverse was the best!
   p.s. Don't even get me started on Lost...now there's my passion! :)

1. Jen-Jen Says:
   April 16th, 2008 at 22:19

   As a Whedonite, I am very select as to who I slip my 'lending' copy of Firefly to. It isn't for everyone, but if and when it does connect for a new fan- that is a beautiful thing. The whole Browncoat phenom is based on word of mouth, and the ranks grow day in and day out.
   
   I am also a huge fan of Lost..by far the best show on TV right now (well, it is actually tied with The Office in my opinion) and that is because of fine writing, and the creators not working from the assumption that the audience are idiots that can't think and have never read a book before. I am a fan of unique and intelligent television in all forms as well as being a bit of a pop culture junkie...as are are most Whedonites I have met.
   
   

1. noandwhere Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 03:33

   OMG, my sides hurt from laughing. I am a true Whedonite, but I have to tell you that you made some very good points. We do get a bit annoying, don't we? ;-)

1. Sierra Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 03:33

   I think that the most annoying thing about Whedon fans is that they're right. It IS ture that if you do watch a good episode of Buffy or watch the pilot of Firefly you're going to be hooked for the rest of your life. I know, as it happened to me back during Buffy season five. Now, Buffy fans know that this was one of the WORST seasons of Buffy. But at the urging of my friends I tuned in one night, and it also wasn't even a great episode for that season, but I was HOOKED. I went straight from "wtf, pretty blonde fights vampires?" to bawling my eyes out when Buffy dies.
   
   I've witnessed the similar conversion of many people around me. One of them even wrote an article in the high school paper bashing Buffy and was converted in college.
   
   Most of the people I know who refuse to give Buffy a try watch nothing but reruns of Family Matters and Fresh Prince. Lost causes if you know what I mean.

1. me Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 05:17

   I do not like you sir or your point of view.
   
   - Bad acting, sounds like your opinion - something that you dislike others pushing on you?
   
   Wow you have a degree...

1. Skytteflickan88 Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 09:33

   First of all: Let it go!
   
   My good woman, let us just watch the show. Did someone tie you to a chair and made you watch all the seasons over and over again?
   
   We all have the right to our opinions, and if Buffy isn’t your cup of tea, big deal. If someone near you is talking about Buffy endlessly, tell them to shut up. There’s so need to trash us all. I mean, come on, the real Buffy-fanatics, are we really worse than any other fanatics? I can’t imagine that we are the worst of all fans. Judge people by their level of fanatic, not that they like Buffy.
   
   I don’t think “you’re wrong” because you don’t like what I like. I hate people who look at you as if you’re crazy when you don’t like their favourite show. I’m not like that, and were do you have the statistics to say that all Buffy-fans are like that?
   
   Btw, Sarah can act. And I can assure you that I’m not her husband. I’m not drinking your kool-aid and agreeing with you, since I think they are great actors. Maybe not the best, but they keep me entertained.
   
   And “Jossus”? lol, I’d never say that. Seriously, who said that? lol
   

1. Chris Johnston Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 09:33

   Yeah, I've been told the same by fans of that Battlestar Galactica, that I should just watch the Mini-Series... but it's three goddamn hours long!

1. Chris Johnston Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 09:33

   I'm an "accidental" Whedonist: Only after a carpool buddy confessed to being "addicted to Buffy" did I stop down and watch 10 minutes of an episode during Season 2.
   I was enthralled, and said the same thing to myself that people do now, when I show them 10 minutes of Firefly: "How did I not know about this?"

1. JavaChick Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 13:12

   I don't know how you can say that nothing was done on Buffy that was not done better somewhere else if you haven't watched it.
   
   Alyson Hannigan's acting on Buffy was fantastic. I like How I Met Your Mother, but I don't find that Hannigan's acting is anywhere near what she accomplished on Buffy. I have wondered if it's because the character just doesn't have as much depth.
   
   You don't have to watch Buffy/Angel/Firefly. You don't have to like it. But if you haven't watched, then you can't exactly judge the quality of the shows. Sorry. But thanks for offering an opinion.

1. ... ... ... Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 15:01

   First off... Great Article.
   
   Secondly...One of my friends LOVES buffy i mean L O V E S buffy (and angel wayyyy more than spike for that matter...cause spike's hair really is creepy and ugly) and i completely understand her little fetish for joss and his "AWESOME AVERAGENESS." i have seen it and i have read a comic or two--so i'm not just blabbing out of hatred--and i must agree the acting is terrible and the jokes, well, they are awkward at best. however, i must admit i enjoyed the "cookies/cookie dough" scene throughly.
   
   Lastly...If you are actually upset by this article and judging from several of the comments on it many people are...that is just sad. What the hell are you trying to defend? It's simply a statement of fact. And try reading the last paragraph again. Idiots.

1. Derrial Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 15:54

   Both Firefly fans and Buffy fans can be annoying in their zeal for their respective shows, but the attitude of superiority from the Buffy fans is off really what put people off more than anything.
   
   In an exchange on one of the Whedonite sites yesterday.
   
   "I think the writer has a point, You "Buffy" people are hard to deal with. I can't remember how many times I have tried to explain that there is a large amount of people who only see "Buffy" as a bunch of kids, playing with vampires and not everyone gets into the Vampire thing.
   
   I disagree with the opinion that "Firefly" deserved to be canceled, but I understand that it isn't for everyone, no matter how much I love it.
   
   BTW, both Nathan and Summer are getting very good press, especially Summer, who is considered a rising star in the business."
   
   a response was:
   
   "'Buffy' people? I think you'll find without Buffy and the success it brought Joss there would be no 'firefly' people...like you."
   
   The response of the moderator was to put the first poster "In Time Out"
   
   Nothing was said to the second poster who verbally accosted the first, because he was. in their minds, defending Buffy.
   
   They take their Buffy seriously, so seriously, that you would have to be careful not to offer any criticism or there will be consequences.

1. Jessie Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 17:41

   It's always enjoyable to read people's opinions on acting quality. Most people have absolutely no idea what makes a good actor - or what really makes a bad one - and yet they spout opinions as if they were a mouthpiece for the God of critics...

1. Veronica Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 18:09

   I like Joss Whedon i really do, Firefly was kind of boring though, and he made a lot of mistakes with "Angel", and Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I would never try to convert people to loving all Joss Whedon related shows. The only thing I would try to monvert people to is to the B/A (buffy/Angel) coupling!!!

1. Robyn Says:
   April 17th, 2008 at 19:30

   I love Joss Whedon's shows and writing (from Toy Story onwards), I really do. However, he can be very cruel and his shows do require an emotional commitment that is most frequently so not rewarded with puppies and fairy floss. And saying this I don't expect to evangelise his work to anyone. The Joss Journey is not for the faint hearted. I am also aware that he has surrounded himself with quality writers and actors and this also has added to his brand.
   I think both Buffy and Angel jumped the shark a couple of times and to his credit Angel jumped back in the last season. Firefly never had the opportunity to do that and perhaps we should be grateful that these shining shows are frozen in amber and look forward to 'the next thing' from Joss's clever and cruel mind. Keep moving forward, or 'just keep flying' but to the next thing, not backwards.

1. Leather Jacket Says:
   April 18th, 2008 at 00:17

   I'm pretty sure I agree with Tracy here. Partly that's because I've been a fan of Joss Whedon's writing, directing and producing talents since the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer first showed up in 1997 ... never been much of a fan of his mad dance skills, though. I've been involved in the Internet Buffy community for almost as long, and I have never heard the term “Jossus” until today (though a quick internet search did find two whole references outside this article that weren't to someone in Moldavia). And I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty darn sure Joss Whedon doesn't have a blog. For one thing, I don't think he has the time, and for another ... someone would have found it and told us about it. I mean, how could the people so dedicated to foisting the show on you not also foist the blog on those of us who actually like the show? (A blog for the “Whedonesque” community does not count as Joss' blog.)
   
   I've never pushed one of Joss's shows on anyone. I've talked them up; told people how much I loved them, and perhaps I've talked about them a lot. I've certainly quoted them enough, and the family who refuses to watch this “silly show” thinks I'm incredibly funny when I do. But I'm a grown up. I've been a grown up for as long as many (not all) Buffy fans have been alive. I accept that my sister doesn't always like the shows I like, but it does annoy me when she refuses year after year* to watch one single episode of the show based on its name, until finally she watches the musical episode, enjoys it, and STILL won't watch another episode. I gave her shows a shot. I did. CHiPS was NOT good.
   
   * We would see an ad for the show on TV, she would complain about how “silly” it looked. That is not me pushing.
   
   You also miss the point when you complain about the actors' acting (which is not terrible), or the writing (which is f-ing brilliant). And I won't even bother comparing the actors from Buffy to those on Star Trek or Star Wars (no matter how funny the idea is) because that's not the point. Of course, if going on to other things is a measure of acting talent, then David Hasselhoff and his 42 acting credits must be a genius. But still not the point. Buffy is the whole package, from concept through execution. Now, maybe you don't get the whole “high school is hell” metaphor. I'm sure there are people who don't. For me, it resonates.
   
   Now, I could be as nasty as you are in your article and say that if you'd gotten a real degree in college instead of coasting through in “film studies”, then maybe you'd have the intelligence to grasp Firefly. After all, my degree was in Mathematics, which means I had to work and study and I got a real job after graduation. But I won't be that mean and nasty, because I have friends who majored in film studies, and so I know that there are intelligent film students out there, just like I know that there are good Whedon fans out there and there are bad Whedon fans out there. See, I don't generalize based on one person's ignorance.

1. mjkbk Says:
   April 18th, 2008 at 14:03

   
   So......this mean-spirited, caustic, humorless, and possibly faux screed was meant to be your audition for a critic's position at the New York Times, right?
   
   Sorry dear, you're not hired.
   
   

1. North Says:
   April 20th, 2008 at 04:30

   Geez, lighten up on the vitriol. Just the fact that you're ready to crucify the writer for her opinion pretty much proves the point. To each his own... that's the point. Whedon is a good writer, I like his work. I like Lost too, and Six Feet Under and Dexter and a ton of other shows out there. Just cause I don't think the guy walks on water doesn't make me dumber than you for not seeing absolute genius like you do. We're talking TV shows... as great as it can be, the minute we make it out too be more than it is the more trouble we're all in.

1. Hannah Says:
   April 30th, 2008 at 22:57

   Ahhh. It is perhaps the crazy Whendon obsessed fans that are the loudest and most obnoxious and abrasive and protective of their beloved shows... I could go on but I won't.
   
   You like your shows, we like ours.
   
   Most of us will not bother you, as long as you do not bother us.
   
   But I do agree with you, honestly, cause some things just get waaaaaaaaaaaay out of hand. Like the OC, or any show with the word Beach in it or associated with it. Ugh.
   
   *sighs*
   
   Such is life. We all must deal with the obsesso-peeps every now and then.
   
   =]

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