Alright, I’m officially starting to worry about The Dark Knight. It’s beginning to look like it may be headed for the dreaded villain overload which has killed so many other superhero franchises.
We know Joker is in it, and it’s been confirmed that Scarecrow is back. That’s well enough. But Aaron Eckhart, who plays Harvey Dent in the movie recently confirmed that he won’t just be there as Gotham’s D.A., Dent will transform into the dual-personality villain Two-Face in the film. That’s three villains and we’re already headed towards dangerous Batman & Robin territory. Now here’s the news that pushes it right over the edge.
A few months ago here we told you that Anthony Michael Hall had been cast in the film, but that no one seemed to know who or what he’d be playing. A story picked up by Filmstalker from Comic Book Movie now indicates that Hall may be playing The Riddler.
Now I like The Riddler. I even liked Jim Carrey’s version of The Riddler and think Batman Forever is a helluva lot better than it gets credit for. But The Dark Knight is officially getting overcrowded. Joker, Scarecrow, Two-Face, and Riddler all in one movie? And that doesn’t count all the mafia kingpins and hitmen that have already been confirmed to be playing a major role in the film. The Dark Knight is turning into Batman versus his entire rogue’s gallery, all in one script. I really hope either these rumors aren’t true, or at least half of these bad guys are getting nothing more than cameos, otherwise Batman Begin’s much anticipated sequel may be headed towards the franchise burnout suffered by previous Bat-movies early.
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I reckon Cilian Murphy will only get a cameo...He seems pretty busy at the moment and i get the impression they did all they wanted with his character in the last film.
First off, Batman forever was terrible, terrible terrible, there really were no redeemign qualitys to Schumachers Batman films, they were a candy coated, neon mess with terrible story lines and eve worse over the top acting... I can hear Schumacher standing there with a cast full full of talented people (Kilmer, then Clooney, Carrey, Jones, Thurman) then screaming at them to act "bigger" and more over the top... and my lord that godawful set design and art direction... ugh. Anyway, to each there own I guess, but in this case I have faith... I agree that villain overload can ruin a movie, so I hope that Scarecrow pops up just enough to play a relevant role in the story, then we move on to Joker, Nygma and Dent are in there as themselves (maybe even helping Bats as his friends) then the movie ends with Joker getting caught, whatever and we see Dent in the final few minutes become Two-Face as the movie comes to a close. If the villain exposure is any more then this this might suck a lot... After all, they already proved they could make a fantastic Batman movie with the B-squad villians in the first film, so why ruin it by cramming it with basically everone from the A-squad in the second (sans Penguin)?
AMH didn't shoot for very long which indicates he will make it into the film for maybe a few minutes. And the rumor is that Edward Nigma is in the film - the character that eventually becomes The Riddler.
Aaron Eckhart has said he puts on make-up to be Harvey Two-Face at some point in the movie and is excited about a scene shooting in October - the end of filming.
Bale has said that the movie ends in the same fashion as Begins (the Joker card).
Batman Begins also "had" three villians if you want to be technical: Scarecrow, Ra's al Ghul, Victor Zsasz (who by name and in the credits but wasn't a major player).
Good god, Nolan and his team proved themselves to us once. They've been filming for a few months. Let's at least give him until we see a trailer or something.
I suppose its all on how you look at it. The first film, technically, had four villains, although two of which were barely sketched in. Ra's Al Ghul, Carmine Falcone, Scarecrow, and Ducard. The first two were barely there, while the second two were far more interesting. Now, I don't know comic canon - which doesn't matter, as a film medium has to stand all on its own - but it seems Carmine and Ghul weren't all that important. Sure they played their parts in Bruce's life, but mostly they were background (Ghul especially, who presented little more than sinister stares, if I recall correctly. He was technically the *main* villain, although Ducard seemed more or less the voice for him).
Of course, I have to agree, four of the *major* Batman villains, covering their stories and such, seems like too much. I can see Riddler potentially being a small part, some partner of Scarecrow's for a bit, before probably killed off. Not saying it'll happen, but I can see them going down that route. Having both Joker and Riddler on the same screen definetly seems overkill. To me, they're both clowns - and I only know Riddler from Carrey's masterful interpretation - so I don't see why there's a need to have them both.
Joker is being hyped as the main villain, Harvey will likely be built up as one for the next film, Scarecrow is a returning role (which I'm glad for, personally, as I absolutely loved him), and Riddler... he's the puzzle piece which does not fit.
Let's keep in mind that "Batman Begins" had three prominent villains (four, if you count Ra's Al Ghul's decoy), and if turned out okay. What I see happening: the Scarecrow shows up early in the film, maybe even before the credits, like a Bond film, and gets captured. Either that or he does some minor work in just a couple of scenes for Sal Maroni's gang. Then the Joker is introduced as our main villain. The Riddler serves a role very similar to his appearance in "The Long Halloween" - that of an informant from whom Batman extracts information. Don't expect to see him in green tights. In fact, I'd be surprised if he's referred to as anything other than "Nygma". As for Dent, I expect him to get scarred at the climax of the film, and then just has a scene or two as Two-Face - again, very much like "The Long Halloween", which Nolan has said he's been very heavily influenced by. It doesn't matter how many villains are in a film; it just matters that they are used well.
Now, now, Josh. Let's not get our titties all twisted in an uproar just yet. Mike (in the e-mail response here) correctly points out that there were quite a few villains in that last installment.
But more importantly, this is CHRISTOPHER NOLAN were talking about here. Consider his track record: Memento, Insomnia, The Prestige, BATMAN BEGINS. He has an enormous advantage over the competition, especially in regards to bloated comic book adaptations - that advantage being that most of his counterparts are NOT ACCOMPLISHED WRITERS like he and his brother.
So...before you jump off the buidling in the Narrows, have a little faith, Joshster. Nolan hasn't let you down yet, has he? Hang in there!
People said exactly the same things about Spider-Man 3.
And guess what? It wasn't bad, but it was a bit of a letdown. Why? Because there were too many major characters running around in it, too many bad guys.
Multiple bad guys has a terrible track record. It has never worked properly. Never. The only reason it worked in Batman Begins is because most of them weren't major villains. I mean come on, Falcone is not The Riddler. The Dark Knight has all the minor thugs like Falcone plus twice as many major villains.
Sorry, I think there's plenty cause for concern there. Multiple villains has never really worked properly, even Sam Raimi had trouble with it... and he's freakin Raimi.
Scarecrow will only be around for a cuppa coffee, at the very beginning. It's back to Arkham for him. Two-face will only have one face until the end of the film. Riddler is unconfirmed at best. At worst, he most likely isn't 'RIddler' yet. He'd be pre-RIddler. (I mean really, you gonna have TWO giggling villains running around, without Adam West to contain them?)
I would not worry too much my friend. Chris Nolan knows exactly what he is doing and believe me it will not go down the path that Batman Forever and Batman and Robin went. It is reported that Hall plays a character who's both good and bad and i don't think Nygma is a good character I think he's just bad. As for Murphy I have to say he will only appear at the beginning but we'll see. I totally trust Nolan and what he's doing it will all play out well.
relax my batfriends this is how the darkknight is goin to be: Scarecrow at the bigining dead, pre-riddler save him for bats 3,joker and mobsters main villans and tow face at the end, o joker will also apear in bats 3
Ok well it is a fact that hes playing a good guy named Edward Nygma. Which means in the dark knight the only villains will be scarecrow(in the beginning like people said) Joker (all through out). The last seen of the movie will probably be harvey dent lookin up at the screen with one side of his face scarred. Just please dont be a scar perfectly in half!!!And Nygma will become bad at the end of the movie too. Which makes me more concerned for the 3rd movie. Cause forever sucked ass!!! Unless they make the riddler kind of sick it wont be so good.
Did anyone else think that Ducard was the real Ra's Al Ghul? I mean. there were two charectaers "playing" Ra' s but in the end it seems that the Ra's we saw were basically decoys for "Ducard" who was the REAL leader, he was the REAL Ra's Al Ghul.. I mean he was the one in charge, he was the one giving the orders, he was the one who trained Bruce (and this is the biggest support, because in the comic Ra's Al Ghul helped train Bruce, not some guy named Ducard) and he was the one who survived the fire just to find a new decoy to take the place of the old (think on this, if the first Ra's was the real one, when he was killed wouldnt Ducard simply take over the League of Shadows as himself? ...But he didnt, he just placed a new "Ra's" in the place of the old one to continue his misdirection, in the end he was the true Ra's Al Ghul. Plus he said to Bruce "You burnt MY house and left me to die", not "Ra's house", so it was his place, not the other Ra's. And one other thing, look at pictures of Ra's from the comic, Ducard looked JUST like him.
Whew... ok I rambled...
I retract one of my statements, it was Ducard who helped train Bruce in the comic, though Ducard did turn out to be a bad guy, he wasnt Ra's Al Ghul. Ra's did turn out to be a respected enemy of Batmans, and he did offer Bruce an alliance and even offered bruce to be his hier in the league, but he was not a mentor in any way That I know of).
Also, Wikipedia confirms that in the movie it was obvious that Ducard did turn out to be the real Ra's (though they never confirmed if he was the "immortal" Ra's from the comic), so, yeah, I thought I was being clever... meh.
Here's what I think- In the movie we get to see Harvey Dent and his Two Face side
battling each other for control or something, we get to see his background and flashbacks and stuff. And Scarecrow probably does a cameo appearence, Riddler and Gamble is in cahoots or Riddler and Joker are in cahoots. Or we get to see pre riddler.
As everyone else stated, Scarecrow will most likely have a minor appearence, not even important to the storyline. As long as something is worked out, it's ok to have Two-Face. Now as for the Riddler, he seems a bit cartoony for this dark-toned movie, so he may not be in it. However, if this movie is anything like the maxi-series The Long Halloween (and some of the characters and themes are in this film, so most likely), he may only have a small role.
Batman Forever really wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. Sure it wasn't as great as the first two Batman Movies, but Val Kilmer did damn good as Batman/Bruce Wayne. I would say he is ranked equally with Bale, they are the second to Michael Keaton. No one has come close to Keatons performance when he puts on the suit. I doubt that TDK will overkill with villains, they're not stupid. Nolan has even gone as far as to give Joker the same treatment that Tim Burton did to The Penguin; Burton knew that Penguin would never be able to live up to the Joker, especially after Nicholson's performance, so he made him into a hideous freak. Nolan is doing the same thing to ensure that Ledger will be able to sidestep Nicholson's performance. I think this is a good move. I can't wait for the next movie, but I'm trying to not let my hopes get too high, the last movie kind of annoyed me because the pace was way too slow, and I hated hearing Bruce whine like a bitch like Anakin Skywalker. But all in all, it was a good movie. It was heavily influenced by Batman the Animated series, even the plot line of the Scarecrow trying to contaminate the water supply.
Okay, some of you are wondering if The dark knight is going to have four villians Joker,Scarecrow,Two-face and the Riddler.The Dark knight will only have The Joker and the return of Scarecrow in it.Harvey Dent will transform into Two-face somewere near the end of the film but won't be a main villian.Christopher Nolan has said that "He wants to leave Two-face for the trilogy" because he wants his storyline to develope first in the Dark knight as Harvey Dent.As for the Riddler no word has been on weather or not he could make his film debut in the futre Batman movie since Batman Forever.
I like the comment about how this new franchise of Batman films has taken to a familiarity with Batman: The Animated Series...good call!! (I LOVE that series....I couldn't believe it was for kids!!!)
Also, I don't know that much about Henri Ducard and his role in the comics....but "Ducard", Bruce's *formal* trainer, WAS the REAL Ra's Al Ghul....Ken Wantanabe was...like someone else said, a *decoy*...same with the other similar looking man near the end of the film at Bruce Wayne's birthday party. Ra's Al Ghul was the MAIN villian in BEGINS. Scarecrow was the second main villian (I love the scenes with him and Batman....I hope there are more in the dark knight!). Carmine Falcone was the third main villian (or is it second and Scarecrow's the third?hmm...oh well..)---and finally Zsaz was the fourth MINOR villian (LOVED how they threw him in there...tho, his character is pretty good in the comic series)
But Nolan has definitely pointed out in the beginning that he is heavily influenced by The Long Halloween and (...I think..) Dark Victory. So, here's my prediction for The Dark Knight:
Scarecrow will be a villian IN THE BEGINNING
Joker is THE MAIN VILLIAN throughout (he will not be in #3...I mean, c'mon....let's face it..)
This film is also mainly about Batman's ALLIES with his *war on crime*, so HARVEY DENT will be in the movie helping Batman and Lt. Gordon, struggling with his other personality until finally...near the end...something awful happens to him and he snaps--turning into the tragic/deadly villian TWO-FACE
...AND....I think we'll be INTRODUCED to Edward Nygma...NOT the Riddler **OR** we'll be introduced to Roman Sionius (sp?): THE BLACK MASK
..either/or....there will be a rival business man who hates Bruce Wayne and Batman alike enough to become part of the infamous ROGUES gallery
I CAN'T FREAKIN' WAIT FOR THIS MOVIE TO COME OUT!!!!!
For the technical record, Batman Begins had four villians, but I wouldn't count "Ducard" and "Ras Al Ghul" as two seperate villians. It's redudant and contradictory. Falcone, Scarecrow, Ras, and Mr. Zzasz. Everyone always forgets about that small butcher for the mob that was in the comics. They were all present in the story and the reason it wasn't ruined like Spiderman 3 is because it was 95% true to the comics and centered still around the title character, not too focused on flawed or overcomplicated storylines with a Sandman that moves like the mummy or 3 different mutant storylines thrown into one ridiculous disaster as bad as the Bay Bridge being reconnected to Alcatraz. Christopher Nolan has proved he knows what he's doing, which is why no one knows for sure who Anthony Michael Hall is playing until it's revealed in the movie. Kudos to him for keeping it that way...but I would like to see Hall play Nygma. :)
I believe The Scarecrow will get murdered by The Joker in the beginning.Two-Face will make a cameo appearane at the end(not Harvey Dent but his alter ego).The mob bosses will have smaller roles, like in Batman Begins.And there is no confirmation that the Riddler is in it.Problem solved. Now about Batman 3, the villains should be Poison Ivy and Black Mask, with Ventriloquist making a cameo.
Okay. So, as it seems Anthony Michael Hall will be playing the Riddler, or at least Edward Nigma for now. I must say that he is a very unlikley choice for that kind of role. Granted, he did play kind of a nerd in 16 Candles and The Breakfast Club, and pretty much anything else hes done before the Dead Zone. Now I think this could go in two directions; 1) HE could take it back to Frank Gorsham and Jim Carrey and give it a over the top, way too humerous, yet badass at the same time. OR, he could play it like The Riddler should be played, dark, yet darkly humerous, and should leave riddles in a sick and demented way.
And as for you people who think that 4 Villians is too much for one movie, BITE ME!!!!! Chris Nolan has put such a new spin on this whole Batman franchise, and BATMAN BEGINS being so amazing, that I personally don't see this as a major problem. Come on, its not like they're getting Schwarzenegger to play a bad guy again.
Well I know its been a year since this was released....but you were wrong....you were dead wrong. One of the highest reviewed movies of the summer 2008. Wallow in your wrongness
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Alright, I’m officially starting to worry about The Dark Knight. It’s beginning to look like it may be headed for the dreaded villain overload which has killed so many other superhero franchises.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:18
I reckon Cilian Murphy will only get a cameo...He seems pretty busy at the moment and i get the impression they did all they wanted with his character in the last film.